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nothing offensive (at least, I don't think) with my replies, they're just rather long.
Chao♪Freak, on 23 May 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:
I will be sorely disappointed if they don't use those models in concert... Miku's best model is now perfect now that she doesn't have those weird chunky pigtails... And new hair physics.... And better facial expression... They're perfect. C':
Mew, on 23 May 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:
oh these models look so much nicer than the original arcade models. I hope they bring them back for concerts and get rid of the oompa loompa looking ones mages currently uses.
Spoiler
I have a theory... back when everyone (including me) was freaking out about SEGA's announcement that the 2012 DaiKanshasai concert being "FINAL," I noticed a source saying that SEGA's response was something along the lines of "final, for now." It makes sense... they've been tiring out the same setlist and can't really afford to tour around everywhere like MAGES can. And they've scraped the bottom of the barrel with MikuNoPolis already. Anyways, that gave them time to revamp the game (f), add a somewhat all-new songlist (f), port that to PS3 (F), and now, finally, overhaul the Arcade system to support those songs, modules, motions, and stages. In this way, they can permeate many target audiences with equal accessibility to the songs they want to play with no margin of loss in-between. The next step, then, is the obligatory concert: these models are most certainly ready. Also, I've noticed something that ties into SEGA's new direction, something I like to call "Marzafication." MarzaAP's modeling philosophy displays emphasis on hair and hair physics (MKP2011 issues aside, for all of these), thicker Rin bangs, bigger Len bangs, smaller Len hips, smaller torsos, emphasis on facial expressions and mouth movements, and flashy effects. Presumably, this is not from MarzaAP itself, but was exemplified in the MikuPa series, where it is believed that a portion of the Miku SEGA team worked on the modeling/animation with Marza. This is taking precedence over the styles we've seen in, say, Extend. (sorry, I've said this a ton, and I've said a ton...) My point is, if this is evidence that the alleged team is tailoring these models to their liking, we may very well see these in future concerts. Or, it could be a part of SEGA's master plan cycle to set off a new set of concerts.
OkpOkpX2, on 23 May 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:
I don't really know what to say... The revision looks like pure lazyness in terms of stages/background chatacters
Eenkin, on 23 May 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:
They kind of look the same as F just less cartoonish like Arcade does with all the other games. I don't see a problem of laziness with it.
OkpOkpX2, on 23 May 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:
I mean, the "problem" is that looks like F, F models/stages/background characters are extremely low poly (including textures) compared to what the Vita/PS3 can do and we all know that SEGA is really lazy and i don't think that importing the stages and all those things is pretty unfair.
There's also the possibility that they remade high-poly versions of them for the revision (That's what i actually hope they did) but kind of impossible at the same time.
Spoiler
Just because the end result has subtle differences doesn't mean it wasn't a lot of work or that they were lazy. It could have been a design decision, too. Also, keep in mind, that the Arcade engine used to run off the same one they used for Virtua Fighter, meaning it had great graphics but some limitations that they pointed out when they were interviewed for f:
Quote
— Can we expect to see songs from Project Diva F to make it into Diva Arcade someday?
Osaki: Yes, that’s a matter of course.
That said, there are quite a few aspects in Project Diva F’s engine that exceeds Diva Arcade’s capabilities. For instance, the expressions found in Project Diva F are more fluid. As a result there will be certain things in F that we’ll never be able to port over in Diva Arcade.
Besides, there are so many other great Hatsune Miku songs we can choose from, including genres that thus far have not yet been featured in Diva Arcade. This is something we’d definitely like to follow up on [as opposed to simply porting over Project Diva F songs].
well this seems ironic
It certainly sounds like they fixed the expressions thing, and you can see in the "Cat Food" PV that the (must be) new engine can handle more than 2 armatures/motions, so it appears that they really did rewrite the engine to support this stuff. They also probably had to do a lot of work to be able to efficiently render all the newfangled effects, stage backgrounds, backup dancers, and other things in addition to the level of graphics quality already achieved with the original DIVA Arcade. Of course, there's incremental hardware improvements, but they would still have to change things. Plus, new/improved models means new/more polygons, which could mean new/redone textures... still quite a bit of work.
Sappokei, on 23 May 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:
Still no teeth; still just mouth shapes. But I mean, it's just a Vocaloid game it's not like their entire concept is based on them singing or anything.
Spoiler
There are teeth, but they're really wide in comparison to the lips. They're there... but you can only see them at extreme head angles. I found that when I did see them, they looked awkward and weird. I think the reason why they did it this way is because when you form different embouchures for corresponding phonemes, your teeth don't follow your lips directly - sometimes they are obscured, sometimes not. The likely reason why the MarzaAP opening PVs were able to pull off the teeth thing was because prerendered videos have all the processing power over time that realtime rendering can't take advantage of -- having teeth means that you have to have them at certain positions for certain pronunciations, and that's just more power to be taken up that can be used for more obvious graphics. Going off of that, I am one to believe that SEGA developed the first Arcade models primarily for the concerts, and when you're that far away, lip movements and teeth visibility are negligible. In addition, unless you have close-ups (as with this Cat Food PV, yes...) it's not all that obvious. What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that I'd rather have nice, realistic shading. I would appreciate teeth, though, but I think the processing distribution as well as visual priorities don't really allow for them.
Funny how I can form a thesis and support it in a well developed, 7+ paragraph essay about why x is better than y on here, but when it comes to school...
Just because the end result has subtle differences doesn't mean it wasn't a lot of work or that they were lazy. It could have been a design decision, too. Also, keep in mind, that the Arcade engine used to run off the same one they used for Virtua Fighter, meaning it had great graphics but some limitations that they pointed out when they were interviewed for f:
[b] well this seems ironic
It certainly sounds like they fixed the expressions thing, and you can see in the "Cat Food" PV that the (must be) new engine can handle more than 2 armatures/motions, so it appears that they really did rewrite the engine to support this stuff. They also probably had to do a lot of work to be able to efficiently render all the newfangled effects, stage backgrounds, backup dancers, and other things in addition to the level of graphics quality already achieved with the original DIVA Arcade. Of course, there's incremental hardware improvements, but they would still have to change things. Plus, new/improved models means new/more polygons, which could mean new/redone textures... still quite a bit of work.
Just SEGA trying to sound like they really weren't lazy.
f/F's mouth morphs are not more fluid or complex, sega's just lazier.
Arcade and DT run on the same engine and use the same physics engine.
I wouldn't believe what PD Team said in that interview. They said that F used almost the 100% graphical power of the PS3 and well... Everybody knows that that's a complete lie and same goes with the PD games for the PSP that only uses the 27% of the PSP graphical power. (10k models+horrible topology+no lighting+just normal maps all round the model+shitty unstable shader+shitty engine+NO PHYSICS=Project DIVA f/F) while Arcade (35k+ models+correct topology+lighting+bump maps+specular maps+normal maps+good stable shaders+good engine+PHYSICS)and finally (3-5k models+good topology+no lighting+no maps+noshaders+no physics=PD). Yes, PDf/F have more in-screen objects but that doesn't mean the engine is more complex or better, Arcade lacks of more in-screen objects because it's just a higher poly version of the PSP games, VF5 has a lot of in-screen objects that DT/Arcade don't used just because they were ports of the original games.
Mm...I'm not thrilled with the F MVs making their way over. They looked nice, but for the most part I found them to be boring as fuck. However, I AM thrilled with the more detailed expressions, the PDA quality animation, the costumes and the new slider thingies. Can't wait to see all the new stuff in action.
I feel the opposite way, I liked the F PV's because they looked like actual proper music videos instead of it just being the Vocaloid dancing alone with nothing happening.
I feel the opposite way, I liked the F PV's because they looked like actual proper music videos instead of it just being the Vocaloid dancing alone with nothing happening.
Definitely. It's almost insane to see how much the PVs have changed from the first game up to FGranted, I do still love some dancing, but F has that and makes it a bit more...energetic, I guess?
Also, I'm probably the only one, but I still don't care for the updated Arcade models. They're definitely a huge leap over the originals (more emotional, etc) but they still look too realistic yet cartoony at the same time. I know the Arcade/Dreamy Theater models will always be like that, but eh. I still prefer the F/f models.
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Chao♪Freak, on 23 May 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:
MultiQuote
