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American Vocaloids Do you think it's possible?

#1 User is offline   Raven Vox Icon

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 11:15 PM

Personally, my opinion is yes, provided someone could garner the necessary revenue, time, and will power... and somehow get a hold of the Vocaloid 2/3 Engine, but I'm just one person with only one opinion, so what's yours?

Of course there's still the question of whether or not a Vocaloid that speaks in American English would fare any better than the Vocaloids that speak in the Queen's English.
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Posted 21 January 2011 - 11:32 PM

This has been brought up a lot.

I think it's fully possible.

However, I don't know if it'd sell like Miku would. People aren't willing to let go of actual singers yet. They like the face of the singer, not just the voice. That's why Ke$sha and Katy Perry are so huge - even if they're not talented, they're undeniably unattractive, and that's what draws people in.
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Posted 21 January 2011 - 11:56 PM

admittedly I really love Katy Perry's music. She sounds gorgeous, imo. But that's just me.

As for American Vocaloids. I was so sure we had a thread about this, I'll see if I can relocate it...

Anyway, I'd love to see an American Vocaloid made. What with Miku's upcoming English voicebank release, that might attract some American companies to actually want to jump into the Vocaloid spheal.

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:09 AM

View PostByakuren, on 21 January 2011 - 03:56 PM, said:

admittedly I really love Katy Perry's music. She sounds gorgeous, imo. But that's just me.

As for American Vocaloids. I was so sure we had a thread about this, I'll see if I can relocate it...

Anyway, I'd love to see an American Vocaloid made. What with Miku's upcoming English voicebank release, that might attract some American companies to actually want to jump into the Vocaloid spheal.



Hm...I dunno about that...personally, as cool as I think it would be to have American Vocaloids, it would annoy me if the sole reason American companies caught on was because Miku's English version caught their attention. That would mean that they are like most Americans and are simply capitalizing on something popular by jumping on the bandwagon. And do you know what I do to bandwagon jumpers? I push them off! XD If you weren't on it to begin with, what makes you think I'm letting you on? Or, likewise, if it's something mega popular and I don't like it, yet I'm expected to jump on with everyone else because it's expected of my age group/generation/demographic, or what have you, I got news for you - I'm in the small percentage that doesn't go along with anything my peers typically consider "cool", so I won't be on that wagon. I'll be the girl on the side of the road in the frilly blue dress and white apron and waving a handkerchief as they take off - "So long! I hope you don't ride off any cliffs or anything... X3"
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Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:16 AM

This is all @ KYA, the other comments were made while I was typing this, give me a moment and I'll reply to those. Sorry.

It's been brought up a lot? Sorry I'm new here, and I probrably should have read a round a little more before asking such a question.

Just thinking though, the lack of success of the English Vocaloids in America was directly blamed on their British accents, so says the Wikipedia Vocaloid page (under "Criticism").

But Yeah, if a American Vocaloid was made it's be a pretty cult-like movement, not main-stream. But what if that same Vocaloid was multi lingual? They could market it in multiple countries, especially if it could speak in Japanese. As is, the English Vocaloids were pretty useful to the Japanese, so maybe an American one would be too? That would allow them to survive, get a reputation, and attempt to bolster the growth of Vocaloid popularity state-side.

It's already a proven fact that almost all of the non-japanese Vocaloid song purchaces on the iTunes Store (Specifically for songs of Crypton's KarenT label) during the 2009-early 2010 period were made by Americans, and I site the Wikipeda Page again on this.

Uhh... did I start rambling, sorry about that?
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Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:32 AM

@Hikaru: The companies ain't forcin' ya to jump on a bandwagon nor purchase their products.
Since you have stated you're a newbie to Vocaloids, I will just let you know, most of the Japanese Vocaloid distributing companies...take a guess at what they did?
Jumped on the Vocaloid bandwagon.
AHS, and such, all did so because they noticed how popular Crypton had made Vocaloids. So obviously they wanted a slice of that pie too.

They ain't doin it because they care about others feelings, they're doing it for money. That's all companies care about, and it's very well known popular things, that people jump on bandwagons for and such sell more so than obscure things.
If Miku sells well in America, and other music companies notice this, they may want to jump in as well, and start getting a share of that money people are willing to pay for a nice voicebank.
Companies don't jump onto a bandwagon to look cool either, rather they do it because they want money out of it. If something is popular, yes they are going to jump in and have a slice of that pizza.

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:44 AM

View PostRaven Vox, on 22 January 2011 - 12:16 AM, said:

This is all @ KYA, the other comments were made while I was typing this, give me a moment and I'll reply to those. Sorry.

It's been brought up a lot? Sorry I'm new here, and I probrably should have read a round a little more before asking such a question.

Just thinking though, the lack of success of the English Vocaloids in America was directly blamed on their British accents, so says the Wikipedia Vocaloid page (under "Criticism").

But Yeah, if a American Vocaloid was made it's be a pretty cult-like movement, not main-stream. But what if that same Vocaloid was multi lingual? They could market it in multiple countries, especially if it could speak in Japanese. As is, the English Vocaloids were pretty useful to the Japanese, so maybe an American one would be too? That would allow them to survive, get a reputation, and attempt to bolster the growth of Vocaloid popularity state-side.

It's already a proven fact that almost all of the non-japanese Vocaloid song purchaces on the iTunes Store (Specifically for songs of Crypton's KarenT label) during the 2009-early 2010 period were made by Americans, and I site the Wikipeda Page again on this.

Uhh... did I start rambling, sorry about that?

Leon and Lola yeah, but since the most accept Vocaloids are, duh, duh, duh - Japanese, I don't think this stands anymore. Either way, if an American Vocaloid company appeared there would be little to stop it and take note - Crypton already got rejected by a LOT of studios prior to Zero-G holding out the torchlight and saying "yes" to it and its a shock that PowerFX joined. Though I do note, Zero-G and PowerFX maintain a friendly stance with each other, another company might not. PowerFX and Zero-G will actually co-operate with each other and support each others efforts. However, Zero-G is limited to a budget and PowerFX is a small company...

Considering recently we finally got some sort of gauge to jusge the length of time to record english and Japanese vocaloids, lets go over this shall we? 25 hours - thats the length of time it took the 6 Appends for the Kagamine's to be recorded 4 hours a day! For engloids, its 1-3 weeks at least. There are 500 diphones per pitch for Japanese and 2,500 for english. A basic quality Vocaloid for Japanese is out within 3 months because of this, while that would be estimented at 4 for english. These figures are not definate, but they are a indication of the work behind such a task. And note; UTAU's that already do this are not perfect because they don't use a diphone system like Vocaloid does. Though Miku is coming to us in english, Luka's english voicebanks are not without problems and she is the only current known english and Japanese Vocaloid, most will agree she sounds a lot better in Japanese. Its not that its impossible, its that the trouble is the work behind. Its a LOT of work just to get english and its not even the language with the most diphones out there. Doesn't help both PowerFX and Zero-G have a holiday in August as well to work around.

But I do note, english vocaloids are lagging behind in numbers this limits what are there ready to be sold, once they out numbered their cousins, but now theres basically 2 for every 1 engloid. Its not their not selling its just they face a lot of biasedness and not everyone likes the selection and many just want english versions of the Japanese ones. The problem is getting better HOWEVER... Until things get better and the cycle breaks it makes english Vocaloids less attractive overall. with 7 studios and only 2 dedicated to english only... Well, its time someone boasted the engloid numbers. :-/

We need more english companies regardless, its just the engloids are not attractive enough yet. Miku's only getting english because Crypton thinks it will make money it pretty much seems "Project; Mikucash" is not a good working title. -_-'
Youtube poster 1; what does the [/] do?

Youtube poster 2; I'm guessing that it breaks the word in half.

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:47 AM

View PostByakuren, on 21 January 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

admittedly I really love Katy Perry's music. She sounds gorgeous, imo. But that's just me.As for American Vocaloids. I was so sure we had a thread about this, I'll see if I can relocate it...Anyway, I'd love to see an American Vocaloid made. What with Miku's upcoming English voicebank release, that might attract some American companies to actually want to jump into the Vocaloid spheal.


I feel stupid, but I don't know who Katy Perry is.
Sorry about the topic-repeat then.
If that's the only reason that an American Company comes to Vocaloid then it will never hold, they'll give up at the first stage of a KAITO without waiting for the Ice Cream, assuming you can understand that.

View PostByakuren, on 21 January 2011 - 06:32 PM, said:

@Hikaru: The companies ain't forcin' ya to jump on a bandwagon nor purchase their products.
Since you have stated you're a newbie to Vocaloids, I will just let you know, most of the Japanese Vocaloid distributing companies...take a guess at what they did?
Jumped on the Vocaloid bandwagon.
AHS, and such, all did so because they noticed how popular Crypton had made Vocaloids. So obviously they wanted a slice of that pie too.

They ain't doin it because they care about others feelings, they're doing it for money. That's all companies care about, and it's very well known popular things, that people jump on bandwagons for and such sell more so than obscure things.
If Miku sells well in America, and other music companies notice this, they may want to jump in as well, and start getting a share of that money people are willing to pay for a nice voicebank.
Companies don't jump onto a bandwagon to look cool either, rather they do it because they want money out of it. If something is popular, yes they are going to jump in and have a slice of that pizza.



But then again, you have a very valid point... although American companies tend to drop when times get tough, but if Miku achived radical popularity in America it would definitely soften up a bank/finance lender to the idea.
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Posted 22 January 2011 - 01:31 AM

Personalty I'll think it would be pretty interesting to see America company's produce Vocaloids.I'll love to see what kind of Vocaloids they'll make. And I'll like to see how Americans reactions at the thought of a virtual singer. Hopefully by Miku's English voice bank will grab the attention by of some American companies.

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 01:42 AM

View PostSomebodyrandom, on 21 January 2011 - 06:44 PM, said:

Leon and Lola yeah, but since the most accept Vocaloids are, duh, duh, duh - Japanese, I don't think this stands anymore. Either way, if an American Vocaloid company appeared there would be little to stop it and take note - Crypton already got rejected by a LOT of studios prior to Zero-G holding out the torchlight and saying "yes" to it and its a shock that PowerFX joined. Though I do note, Zero-G and PowerFX maintain a friendly stance with each other, another company might not. PowerFX and Zero-G will actually co-operate with each other and support each others efforts. However, Zero-G is limited to a budget and PowerFX is a small company...

Considering recently we finally got some sort of gauge to jusge the length of time to record english and Japanese vocaloids, lets go over this shall we? 25 hours - thats the length of time it took the 6 Appends for the Kagamine's to be recorded 4 hours a day! For engloids, its 1-3 weeks at least. There are 500 diphones per pitch for Japanese and 2,500 for english. A basic quality Vocaloid for Japanese is out within 3 months because of this, while that would be estimented at 4 for english. These figures are not definate, but they are a indication of the work behind such a task. And note; UTAU's that already do this are not perfect because they don't use a diphone system like Vocaloid does. Though Miku is coming to us in english, Luka's english voicebanks are not without problems and she is the only current known english and Japanese Vocaloid, most will agree she sounds a lot better in Japanese. Its not that its impossible, its that the trouble is the work behind. Its a LOT of work just to get english and its not even the language with the most diphones out there. Doesn't help both PowerFX and Zero-G have a holiday in August as well to work around.

But I do note, english vocaloids are lagging behind in numbers this limits what are there ready to be sold, once they out numbered their cousins, but now theres basically 2 for every 1 engloid. Its not their not selling its just they face a lot of biasedness and not everyone likes the selection and many just want english versions of the Japanese ones. The problem is getting better HOWEVER... Until things get better and the cycle breaks it makes english Vocaloids less attractive overall. with 7 studios and only 2 dedicated to english only... Well, its time someone boasted the engloid numbers. :-/

We need more english companies regardless, its just the engloids are not attractive enough yet. Miku's only getting english because Crypton thinks it will make money it pretty much seems "Project; Mikucash" is not a good working title. -_-'


Crypton might also be making "Project; Mikucash" because they got 30-some-thousand people demanding it.

So one has to go to Crypton to get the Vocaloid dataware (manufacturing engine)? Good to know.

I see your point though, it would take a very long time, a lot of hard work, and a self-sacrificing lifestyle or a really big budget. But if you gave yourself half a year to make it, and had the crew, the equipment, the facility, and , naturally, the finance resoursefulness to do it, it might be possible...
...to make the Vocaloid and still fiscally survive.

But still, you said that many just want English versions of the Japanese ones, so why don't you give it to them? ...Well, not literally, but the Engloids in general have not been following the Japanese Vocaloid road to
success, they tried with Sonika but stumbled quite some. What I'm saying is that one should present the American Vocaloid as Crypton did with Miku, give it a Life, a story, but not what was done with Lily, that was possibly to much.

So yeah, basically what you were saying.

Though I have heard in various un-accredited places (chit-chat, etc.) that a lot of American hold the same opinion of the Vocaloid 2 Engloids as they did with the Vocaloid 1 series, I myself agree with them. It's mostly to digital, I hope this can change with Vocaloid 3.

Just wondering though, if Vocaloid 3 is specifically for English, then a Bi-lingual Vocaloid, say English/Japanese, would have to use both Vocaloid 3 and Vocaloid 2?
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Posted 22 January 2011 - 01:44 AM

@Raven Vox: Neh, discussions about this have been deep in existing topics... no actual topics like this, not recently at least.

I agree, though, it would be kind of "hopping on the bandwagon." But if they did a really good voice instead of just BSing it (i.e. Gumi vs Gachapoid) I wouldn't mind.
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Posted 22 January 2011 - 01:57 AM

@ Alice542
Do you mean the reactions of the American populous or the american Business industry?
Recently down here there have been many advancements made in automated technology, so there's likely a novelty to a Virtual Singer that the big shots will find, which means that they'll treat it like the companies that Crypton originally went to did, like a "toy". But the American Populous where Anime in now main-stream on the other hand might love the concept.

@ KYA
Oh, okay. (on the topics thing)
Forgive my ignorance, but could you explain the Gumi vs Gachapoid thing for me please, I'm not very familier with either one of them.
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Posted 22 January 2011 - 02:25 AM

View PostRaven Vox, on 22 January 2011 - 01:42 AM, said:

Crypton might also be making "Project; Mikucash" because they got 30-some-thousand people demanding it.

So one has to go to Crypton to get the Vocaloid dataware (manufacturing engine)? Good to know.

I see your point though, it would take a very long time, a lot of hard work, and a self-sacrificing lifestyle or a really big budget. But if you gave yourself half a year to make it, and had the crew, the equipment, the facility, and , naturally, the finance resoursefulness to do it, it might be possible...
...to make the Vocaloid and still fiscally survive.

But still, you said that many just want English versions of the Japanese ones, so why don't you give it to them? ...Well, not literally, but the Engloids in general have not been following the Japanese Vocaloid road to
success, they tried with Sonika but stumbled quite some. What I'm saying is that one should present the American Vocaloid as Crypton did with Miku, give it a Life, a story, but not what was done with Lily, that was possibly to much.

So yeah, basically what you were saying.

Though I have heard in various un-accredited places (chit-chat, etc.) that a lot of American hold the same opinion of the Vocaloid 2 Engloids as they did with the Vocaloid 1 series, I myself agree with them. It's mostly to digital, I hope this can change with Vocaloid 3.

Just wondering though, if Vocaloid 3 is specifically for English, then a Bi-lingual Vocaloid, say English/Japanese, would have to use both Vocaloid 3 and Vocaloid 2?

If you refer to the 30,00 that signed up to the facebook account... Honestly... How many of them do you think will buy it? They'll sign up for it, but 1 in every 30 will buy it properly. Even on anime forums and other places, I've seen 10 people say for sure they'll buy it between them and here. 10 people. Its always the case, I remember a compagine against a place that bred cats for medical research on animals, they closed it but did one campaginer adopt one of those 300 cats now made homeless by this? No. Its typical. Many will try and get it for free illegally (*Pocaloid*) which does the studio no good.

Few english professionals use Luka due to her accent and sub-par voicebanks as it is, she is at the moment a fan Vocaloid (I'm hoping she changes around for the Append)... Most Japanese do not speak good levels of english. One of the "negative" points raised for Miku english was her Voice actoress wasn't able to speak english and the fear was while Luka's could, since Luka's was sub-par Miku's will be worst. The only one of the J-loids I know whose provider speaks english is Gackt, Gakupo's provider. To put it bluntly, its not that it can't also happen but theres no drive to.

Engloids made so far are for professionals only, thats why you have Soul, Opera, etc. True, Sonika was done in the style similiar to J-loids, but the problem wasn't Sonika's approach, it was the voicebanks long list of things that could be improved.

Also, anime doesn't fly with everyone in American (there is a strong dislike actually) and most barely even know what Vocaloid is, those that do tend to know just Miku, then the Kagamines. If your lucky, Kaito then Luka... Meiko perhaps. And Gumi and Gakupo. The rest they don't know of, or in the case of engloids they are met with extreme biasedness and a lot of misinformation. Even with all the recent efforts to try and get all the non-Crypton Vocaloids more notice, the engloids are the only area lagging bahined because you can't force someone to like something. You can force them to accept their existance, but asking to love and adore isn't going to happen. This is the biggest problem, people love Vocaloid for the Japanese vocaloids and struggle with their own language. I've seen one commenter stating "I wish Japanese was the world language its so much better!" in one vide to put it on the extreme levels.

I blame expectations... Less then a quarter of all fans don't even know when the Japanese Vocaloids screw up (and some do quite often hence why subtitles exist), but they sure know when our own ones do and thats the trouble in selling Vocaloid on the english side. When you tell them the only difference is the language, no one believes you. You listen to Leon and Kaito though before all the filters are applied its the same. Though Japanese Vocaloids are smoother because their stable (500 diphones Vs 2,500), thats about it. Everything the same, you can hear things clearly in the language you speak.

Vocaloid 3 is for both languages, on the forum we can only give feed back for one language - english.

Though you seem to have a funny sort of idea on this... ^_-
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Posted 22 January 2011 - 03:13 AM

View PostRaven Vox, on 21 January 2011 - 08:57 PM, said:

@ KYA
Oh, okay. (on the topics thing)
Forgive my ignorance, but could you explain the Gumi vs Gachapoid thing for me please, I'm not very familier with either one of them.


When Megpoid was released, it was really treated as just "jumping on the bandwagon," with a big name but a bad design. However, she is arguably the most naturally realistic Vocaloid.

The recently-released Gachapoid, on the other hand, also had a "big name" to it, being based off of an old character. However, his quality is... not exactly up to par.

My point is that I'd rather see people companies jump on the bandwagon if they give quality worth paying for.
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Posted 22 January 2011 - 03:45 AM

View PostRaven Vox, on 21 January 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

So one has to go to Crypton to get the Vocaloid dataware (manufacturing engine)? Good to know.

I think that was a typo in SomebodyRandom's post. YAMAHA created the VOCALOID engine, and they liscence it off to other companies who produce the VOCALOIDs themselves. At the beginning, YAMAHA asked several companies to do VOCALOIDs and Crypton and zero-g were the only ones who were interested.

There's also the possibility of a company thats already produced an Engloid (PowerFX & zero-g) producing a VOCALOID voiced by an American singer. Sweet Ann is voiced by an Australian, but PowerFX is a Swedish company. Of course, then its not reaching out to any kind of new audience, really.

as gar as if an American conmpany made an English VOACLOID for the American/Western market, I think SomebodyRandom gave the most insightful thoughts on the matter. If it was marketed in America, it'd probably be largely viewed as a high-tech, overpriced toy. I doubt many people would really take it seriously. As KYA said, its more than just the voice and technology, its the image too. Plus people feed off of celebrity gossip and drama. there really isn't as much of that with VOCALOID producers.

And as far as how it sounds, the system still isn't perfect, and as SomebodyRandom said, peoiple can hear every little error and anomaly in thier first language, and that turns a lot of people off from the English VOCALOIDs.

View PostRaven Vox, on 21 January 2011 - 09:57 PM, said:

@ Alice542
Do you mean the reactions of the American populous or the american Business industry?
Recently down here there have been many advancements made in automated technology, so there's likely a novelty to a Virtual Singer that the big shots will find, which means that they'll treat it like the companies that Crypton originally went to did, like a "toy". But the American Populous where Anime in now main-stream on the other hand might love the concept.

But the American populus where anime is already popular would likely already know of Miku's existence. Granted, they may not all know who/what she is. So its not reaching out to a vast Western audience, in that respect. Something tells me that with the audience who already likes Japan would end up discovering the JPloids through this new hypothetical American one, and end up getting more involved with that end of the fandom.

View PostRaven Vox, on 21 January 2011 - 08:16 PM, said:

But Yeah, if a American Vocaloid was made it's be a pretty cult-like movement, not main-stream. But what if that same Vocaloid was multi lingual? They could market it in multiple countries, especially if it could speak in Japanese. As is, the English Vocaloids were pretty useful to the Japanese, so maybe an American one would be too? That would allow them to survive, get a reputation, and attempt to bolster the growth of Vocaloid popularity state-side.

But we can't ever expect a VOACLOID to stand on its own 2 feet, so to speak, in the Western matket if its piggybacking off of Japanese popularity. But if it isn't Japanese capable, I don't see a huge advantage, as far as bolstering popularity goes. A vast majority (if not, all) of American music is in English, and a vast majority (again, if not, all) American English music listeners listen to English music. For many people, an ability to understand the language of thier music is a big factor.
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