[Azure_flux]

A thread aimed at providing feedback for VO's staff performance.

RULES:

- Keep personal issues out of this, this is strictly about how the staff handles their job.

- Refrain from simply insulting the moderators, this is for feedback.

- Suggestions can range from specific mods to the entire staff.

We believe this sort of topic can be used for the bettering of our current performance and would like you to abide by the above rules and proceed in conformity and a lot of gosto, so to speak.

[Soft~n~Fluffy]

Aies Skah, on 26 February 2011 - 05:53 PM, said:

I rarely see mods out of the BL. I rarely see them post in the VocaLounge.

/feedback

THIS! I really don't like how most of our mods would rather contribute to that cesspool when they could be contributing to what this forum is actually about. I've seen mods who have apparently no idea about what's been going on in the Vocaloid world lately and I find that shameful. But don't take this the wrong way; I'm not saying that the /b/ro lounge should be destroyed or that mods shouldn't post there. I'm just saying that the mods, like the forum overall, should be a lot more focused on our main topic.

Also, er, quick question. Can people volunteer to be mods or would thta just be interpreted as power hunger?

[Bernkastel]

Posting =/= lurking. Just because one doesn't post in a certain forum doesn't mean they don't visit said forums. I don't know EVERYTHING about Vocaloids, but it's easy for me to spot when something needs my attention.

The thing about mod work is that it's very... transparent, very unnoticeable. I could fix a billion problems in the Vocalounge and you'd never notice that a mod went through there. That's how it works. You have no idea how many double posts, duplicate threads, spam posts, troll threads, etc., get deleted/merged/whatever every single day. That place is very messy, and those sort of things are never ending. I'd be lying if I said I spent significant amounts of time there though, but that's something else I suppose. But hey, that's why the report function (which is used) is there, and why we're kind of looking for a new mod too with a focus towards that area... kinda.

Saying no time is spent there though is just exaggerating.

As for vouching for yourself for a mod position... well, I dunno. I don't think anyone's done that before. I'm pretty sure anyone who wants to be a mod and got denied would see you that way.

[Byakuren]

The reporters don't really...report news.

I know Zero hasn't posted any news articles in months(or a year? I dunno I can't even remember), and Cross hasn't either.

Shouldn't we have reporters that like...report vocaloid news actively? oxo

[Clove]

Byakuren, on 26 February 2011 - 07:40 PM, said:

The reporters don't really...report news.

I know Zero hasn't posted any news articles in months(or a year? I dunno I can't even remember), and Cross hasn't either.

Shouldn't we have reporters that like...report vocaloid news actively? oxo

Doesn't that somebodyrandom person end up doing most of the news? e - o

[Confetti]

I thought Anarnee-I think I spelled her name wrong. Dx Sorry in advance-did most of the news. I could be wrong though.

[SeeU]

i always thought reporters...reported threads. omg.....my mind is blown.

[Roimata]

<sub>anarnee

Somebodyrandom

Karlita ;3

Those are some of the people that post in the News section. Oh, also Aies Skah. ovo</sub>

[Paprika]

Quote

we don't need a VO revolution or the mods to be stricter, we need most of the mod team to calm their tits and not get offended/emotional so easily by people who disagree with them or their actions
i think that + their unwillingness to change their practices is what is causing "a decrease in quality" and a torrent of users to leave (though i may be wrong lol)
there have been far too many times where the mods have acted on their emotions. pretty much ALL of the threads/users who have pointed out flaws/given critiques with the current moderating team have been deleted/suspended.
azure himself even mentioned that the banner for the new luka skin is blatant user favorism, and how much he doesn't care that it is. was i the only person to think something was seriously wrong with that?

That was from Milk. And now for my opinion.

Now everything I have an opinion against is specifically pointed at you Luka. At first, I used to greatly dislike A because of her opinion against Kata, and not simply because she disliked him, but because I felt that people who talked with her switched opinions and A was using her popularity as a mod to sway the opinions of a few towards her own, which in my opinion was horribly abusive or irresponsible, regardless if she meant to or not.

Moderators are the face and representatives of the forum as a whole. No we are not expecting you to be all happy lovey with everyone, as outlined in the other thread, but the involvement of personal opinions while in a position of power is a very strong wind against a fire. In time however, I did somewhat forgive her because she did handle Kensaya's ban with me in a calm manner which I'm fine with.

Mmm, I have a lot to say. Yes you are human and you have flaws because we are neither better or worse than anyone else here but let us consider a situation for a second.

What happens if a regular guy is found out to be a lolicon stalker and has tons of photos of his neighbor's daughter in his house? Well great! Now everyone close to him hates him, he moves away and has bad luck follow him forever. Now what if the Senator of the State of New York was found out to be that?... Well oh shit, the media's going to pounce and it's worldwide. That is an exaggerated example of what your position is like. Cool, you're just a user with powers to clean shit up, but you know that the moment you take a position above "Just another User", you instantly accept all responsibilities that follow suit with being designated as more important than the rest of us.

But Luka, for a lot of the issues that I can remember (and if you want to say which ones in particular, I'm just lumping the Kata and Joy shit into one huge mess of crap) if you've had an emotional attachment in the issue or were involved in a way that allowed for personal bias to materialize, it happened and that is straight out horrible.

Now you can say that all this current drama is being caused by shit that was all personal and most of it was initiated by us Users, with you mods having to intervene to stop a massive shitstorm exploding into the lives of the regulars (at the time)... But like I say before, you are already in a tight position with your status. Bad moves won't cost you your jobs, I doubt Azure would ever demote someone), but they do impact the general opinion of your own intentions and giving people the chance to hate you really does seem like a backwards step when you're trying to maintain the cohesiveness of the community as a whole.

So what this all boils down to is that there should really be nothing involved in your duties that involves personal affairs.

Actually. Fuck that, there are three ways you can do your job.

1. Transparently. Don't involve yourself in any social shit ever. Dealing with it is lose-lose for you anyways.
2. Be a huge fucking asshole about your job. Ban the shit out of as many people as you can.
3. Like a politician. Keep doing what you do but whatever we say negatively about you, is to be taken straight up the ass without complaints. Add in a pretty platform speech and we'll vote for you again next year.



@Bern. Damn you're in a bad position with some people. Some people hate you because you're trying to defend Luka and some people hate you simply because other people hate you. Personally, I find that what you're trying to do us defuse the tension that built up in the last while with a non-chalant attitude and the attempt to reason in a calm tone. The defending another person stuff was probably something you shouldn't have done, but understandable, but the non-chalant attitude I find offensive. Like you don't give a shit about what happened, which may be the case, but hey, you got them Mikis and it's not all about cleaning.

@Luka. Yeah. Mmm.

@Nova. Whatever work you do in terms of Moderating, I don't see a single bit and that is exactly what I expect most of the time. If you have changed, well fuck; but aside from that it's good you try and stay out of this stuff.

@Mima. Do you still exist? I don't even know and it really doesn't matter. You're like Nova except I never see you at all. Staying low is cool, but having a presence at least gives the impression of having more people to stare at when we're angry with stuff.

No more A. Shit.

@Ryo I have no idea when you became a mod. That shocked me seeing them Mikis to be honest. If you're doing your job, well done for not being a jackass. If you're not doing your job, go sit by Mima.

Is Crossy a mod? Accela is one too right? I don't see them at all either so whatever.

---

Of course, I don't mean anything in here offensively. My justification for posting all of this is because ever since the August 20th or something that I joined in 09, I have NEVER become part of the social groups that has made up VO. You know that guy that everyone knows but no one is really good friends with? That's me, and I've always been observing the people here quietly as I did my GFX and posted here and there. I have no personal bias to attach to any of these arguments that have erupted over the past one and a half years that I have been here and so I like to think I can mediate some of the stuff that comes through in a reasonable fashion.

Of course my lack of attachment means that I get my information from biased sources because I'm not directly involved and so there is an inherent prejudice in the things that is relayed to me.

I still greatly dislike the Mod selection process and Luka, you still stand straight out in my head as unable to carry out your duties properly.

[EDIT: If this is deleted or edited, I'm going to be pissed because I give a shit about this and spent a while writing this out.]

[Bernkastel]

Paprika, on 07 March 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:

@Bern. Damn you're in a bad position with some people. Some people hate you because you're trying to defend Luka and some people hate you simply because other people hate you. Personally, I find that what you're trying to do us defuse the tension that built up in the last while with a non-chalant attitude and the attempt to reason in a calm tone. The defending another person stuff was probably something you shouldn't have done, but understandable, but the non-chalant attitude I find offensive. Like you don't give a shit about what happened, which may be the case, but hey, you got them Mikis and it's not all about cleaning.

I try to be as calm in demeanor as possible. Do you notice I act very differently when I'm doing my job? I try to be as straightforward and "professional" about those certain tasks. And of course that pisses people off, because they want me to get angry or butthurt when they try to retaliate at me, but I don't. To be honest, a lot of the petty stuff makes me shake my head. I don't get why people get so incredibly worked up over dumb things and hold a grudge over it for as long as they do. Getting worked up only gets in the way of your judgement.

Of course, I'm not some cold emotionless robot, I try to be as compassionate as possible. I love a lot of people here. I wouldn't even be here if I didn't. But in regards to trolls, they only get as much respect as I need to give them out of fairness. I never hold anything against them either (unless they're waaaaaay out of line), but they go on to explode outside of the forums anyways. Their hate is one sided. I don't really get it.

It's a simple matter of haters gonna hate. Being a mod means you have to develop a spine and a thick skin. Not everyone's going to like you, and that's part of the job. Being that way only makes it easier. What's wrong with letting them simmer in their hate while I just sit here drinking a cup of tea, not letting it affect me at all?

And I don't know if you know, but a mods job is to to slap someone when they're saying bad stuff about someone else. That was also a job for me since Luka is important to me. But is it okay for everyone else to defend their friends? Of course it is. I don't see why that's being singled out as wrong.

If you're talking about that suspension I gave out, it wasn't because of what was said towards her. It was because they outright told me lolnope after I asked them to cut it out. I mean, if a cop pulls you over for speeding and lets you off with just a warning and tells you that they don't want to see you do that again, you say okay and drive away. You don't tell the cop "Ha no fuck you." That'll land you some jailtime.

As for bad moves not costing you your job, you couldn't be any more wrong. If Azure did not agree with something that was done, he'd bring it up (and trust me, he's done that in the past). You guys don't think he pays attention, but he does. If he sees something needs to be done or fixed, he brings it up. A lot of stuff that people don't think goes on actually does go on, but no one except the mods can even know that.

Let me put it in a simple way. No one's ever going to agree that everything is right. Ever. Some think an action was really needed, and at the same time others will think it was wrong. That's how life is. Difference of opinion is normal. Expecting your way to be 100% correct is asinine. That goes for everyone, including myself. I don't doubt there's stuff that could be better, but I don't think the place is as bad of a shape as some claim it is. We're volunteering our own time and effort here (yes, even replying to things is optional). If this was a paid service, then you could openly complain about everything you wanted. But truth is that it isn't. Make due with what's here, or you can leave. No one's holding anybody back.

[Absol Fimbulvetr]

Paprika pretty much sums it up when i said "we need a revolution".
Other reasons? Yes, there are other reasons i gave, to merely support current situation.
I still hope for the better of VO.

[Paprika]

Bernkastel, on 08 March 2011 - 12:10 AM, said:

As for bad moves not costing you your job, you couldn't be any more wrong. If Azure did not agree with something that was done, he'd bring it up (and trust me, he's done that in the past). You guys don't think he pays attention, but he does. If he sees something needs to be done or fixed, he brings it up. A lot of stuff that people don't think goes on actually does go on, but no one except the mods can even know that.

Now this entire statement I'd like to refute, and I'd like to understand how this applies to things you have done, yet I have never seen this the times I have asked bans to be repealed and suggestions to the way moderation is handled.

Azure's answer to me is pretty much the same every time and it sounds sort of like, "That's a good point and I will consider this over, but I'm not very well acquainted with forum affairs and I'll talk to my mod team about this to clear it up".

Mind you that is a generalization, but I got that message when I asked for the repeal of Kensaya's ban because I thought (and still think) it was completely unjustified. Everyone here knows Azure. Think about it. The fact that the big man won't add formal rules to the community says enough about his rather laissez faire stance on operating it. I VERY highly doubt that he pays enough attention to this forum to notice all the intricacies dealing with these social circles when he already deals with his life outside of the internet as well as his multiple YouTube accounts.

I never got any messages back from him after that. Everything else that happened was conducted through PMs to A about the repeal which was ultimately still denied.


Also.

Quote

If you're talking about that suspension I gave out, it wasn't because of what was said towards her. It was because they outright told me lolnope after I asked them to cut it out. I mean, if a cop pulls you over for speeding and lets you off with just a warning and tells you that they don't want to see you do that again, you say okay and drive away. You don't tell the cop "Ha no fuck you." That'll land you some jailtime.

Now I like snooping, and making people rethink their words.

Because some insulting things were said about Luka, you asked the offending people to quietly cease action and because they simply refused, they were given a suspension (temporary ban) right?

Click here and look at the Vocaloid "Lily." thread from the News Section

Now in this example, Luka had been voicing out her opinion about her dislike for Lily. Then Crossfrown interjected and asked Luka to stop with the complaints. Then, Joy defended Luka's opinion saying it's fine to say whatever she wants. Cross asked again to quickly cut it out. Joy admitted that Luka was being disrespectful to everyone in the thread. Luka then said that Cross was being argumentative and rude. Cross then finishes out with saying that Luka is being childish and disrespectful to everyone in the thread by continuing to insult a common interest.

Straight off the bat, Cross asked Luka to stop complaining because it was disrespectful to fellow users. And the two of them didn't stop. Is this the same sort of situation as what happened with Leslie? Or is it different?

In both cases, people were being offended and there was a person saying things that were offending others. Both cases had a mod that asked the offenders to stop doing what they were doing, and in both cases the offenders did not.

If Leslie deserved a ban for defying a mod's authority, then I'd say that Luka deserves a ban as well for offending not one person, but everyone reading the Lily thread that got pissed off at her continuous negative remarks about her voice.


Bern, it is fine and dandy to defend your friend, but when you DEFEND YOUR FRIEND, using moderator status to impose judgement is simply abuse of authority. It's not being a good guy, it's not calming the trolls. That is flat out abuse of power. If you are going to ban a person for insulting others, you sure as hell better ban everyone else that does the exact same thing because when you single out specific people because they are either the most high profile or just because you hate them, you're doing your job wrong.


Like I keep saying, and I feel like Capitalized Size 7, Underlined and Bolded Impact font.

THERE IS TO BE NO INVOLVEMENT OF ANY SORT OF PERSONAL FEELINGS WHEN DEFUSING CONFLICTS ELSE YOU ARE SIMPLY ABUSING POWER.

That is not an opinion, that is a statement that I want everyone to remember until the moment they die.

Also, I took screenshots of the thread because I want to drill this into your heads, as well as everyone else who reads this because if you can't do your job well, I highly suggest you do as A did and step down from Moderating duties.

Oh, yes we are going to hold you above everyone else and bitch at you whenever you make a mistake and it is perfectly legitimate to do so, because you are held in a higher position and placed there because you are selected specifically to do your job. And you accepted that job with the knowledge that you are to carry it out well, in exchange for the powers to do so.