[Beatlemania]

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Isn't a severe mod overhaul being melodramatic in itself? Going by what you said, we'd need new mods every few months because they get used to their fellow members? That's absurd. You're asking too much from a fan-made forum with this sort of atmosphere.

Let me get this straight, you think it is "OMG IMPOSSIBLE" to get people in here to moderate the forums without having them become involved with the people? Ya know what, what about someone with... oh I don't know... a life in the real world? Someone who isn't interested in making buddies online since their social needs are fulfilled else where. Perhaps we could get someone without an invested interested in Vocaloid. I moderate a forum as a part of my parent's business with little to no emotion or interaction with the members because I don't care about the topic and I know what my job is. I'm not there to be everybody's little buddy and chat it up. And I'm certainly not about to start conversations about buyer to buyer retail/wholesale. But I do my job extremely well. I check through the forums, I delete unwanted posts, e-mail warnings, and if warnings are not heeded then I follow procedure as set by the admin. Yes, it may not be happy dappy la-la land but I do my job fairly and well. (I'm not saying I could mod here. I couldn't since I have a vague interested in Vocaloid and know the members already.)

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And where does it say a mod isn't a member? Sure, a mod has responsibilities and those come first, but nowhere anywhere does it say they can't get along with their users. It's a community, interaction is what you're going to get from everyone. Asking us to give that up is lolworthy, sorry. It's down to how you view what a mod should be, it's opinion not fact. If it was a requirement to become a mod here, then yes, we would be 100% accountable for being human. But guess what, it isn't. So that point is immediately moot.

Tut tut, little man. This is a thread for suggestions, is it not? Why don't you stop being a mod and have Azure bring in a fresh face with clear instructions not to become friendly with members.

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If I stand up for someone, it doesn't mean I'm being impartial (well, technically speaking it is). If someone calls you something or is trolling you, I'm going to tell them they're out of line if you bring it up to me or if I see it. Not complicated, right? I've defended people before who trolled others, people who I know didn't like me, people who heavily disagreed with me, people I don't think very much of. It's on a case by case basis. But of course no one really notices that because that will prove nothing for them in this sort of thing. I've admitted to mistakes before, and I'm sure I'll screw up again in the future.

Me and Luka see a lot of things eye to eye, hence why we tend to agree on a lot of things. If she brings something up to me that needs me to say something, I'm going to say what I want to say. If that's a problem for you, then that's unfortunate.

I don't need anyone to defend me. I'm a big girl. Why I can walk and talk and all sorts of lovely grown up things! I assume Luka can too though I have no definite evidence of this. When you spot Luka getting in a spat why not let her sort it out for herself? She's a grown up. She can handle it. Don't let her come crying to you every time her mouth gets her jammed up. Or anyone for that matter! If I came running to you about some fucking ridiculous spat I'm having you had better tell me that it's my problem and you'll only step in if it begins to erupt. Not to tell my foe they are wrong or me that I am wrong. That simply we need to chill the fuck out. Sticking up for someone isn't being a good mod. It's just being someone's strong arm.

[Howard]

*Sips tea and sighs*
Honestly,I havent seen Bern do those things.I think that it's because I am not online alot anymore.Bern,the POINT of being against you defending Luka is that we dont see you defend anyone else.I like being protected by somone as much as the next guy but I can handle things by myself and I belive Luka can too.If a mod protects somone more then others then it means that he or she is abusing his or she's powers. Mod IS a member,but a member with a higher level. ''If somone calls you something...''*le sigh* Dude calling somone something and punishing somone for that is abit strange.People call each other names and get punished in first grade.Ofcourse you punish somone for calling somone ''Ugly faced fat idiot stupid prick with no fucking shitty life'' but I have not seen anyone call anyone anything like that.Try to calm down both of you.
Bern is actually an active mod.The only minus is that he defends luka (even tough I havent seen that).I am probably going to be killed thanks to this post soo..c'ha

[Bernkastel]

Beatlemania, on 08 March 2011 - 02:21 AM, said:

I moderate a forum as a part of my parent's business with little to no emotion or interaction with the members because I don't care about the topic and I know what my job is.

There's your flaw. You're obligation is your parents and that your parents own it. This isn't a business, we won't lose anything extremely significant.

Why would people who have no interest in Vocaloid or Japan or whatever there is on this forum even be here in the first place? Are we going to outsource to some company in India just for that? That's being awfully unrealistic. No one's going to join a Vocaloid forum just for that.

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Tut tut, little man. This is a thread for suggestions, is it not? Why don't you stop being a mod and have Azure bring in a fresh face with clear instructions not to become friendly with members.

That's just it though, it's just a suggestion. A mod like that would have no sort of obligation here. I don't see anyone taking that kind of position without some kind of perk or benefit. Seriously.

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I don't need anyone to defend me. I'm a big girl. Why I can walk and talk and all sorts of lovely grown up things! I assume Luka can too though I have no definite evidence of this. When you spot Luka getting in a spat why not let her sort it out for herself? She's a grown up. She can handle it. Don't let her come crying to you every time her mouth gets her jammed up. Or anyone for that matter! If I came running to you about some fucking ridiculous spat I'm having you had better tell me that it's my problem and you'll only step in if it begins to erupt. Not to tell my foe they are wrong or me that I am wrong. That simply we need to chill the fuck out. Sticking up for someone isn't being a good mod. It's just being someone's strong arm.

Yes, you're a big girl. Luka is too.

But not everyone can do that. You view things a whole lot more independently than most, and that's fine. But it's naive to think that everything works itself out. It's delusional to think everyone is that way. If something breaks out on the forum, we're just supposed to sit here and let people explode into each other? No. If someone wants help, they'll get it. If someone's being a complete douche, who do you think we'd side with? The douche, or the person who's getting hassled? If it's two people being stupid, then yes, we just jump in and lock the place down. It doesn't matter whether it's you or Abe Lincoln. Someone's going to step in if they see it as necessary.

You view forums as if they're all the same. VO runs nothing like the forum you mod from the sound of it. Comparing the two doesn't really do much.

@Rooxi: It's more like defending Luka is much more apparent because people will want to use that against us. I've recently helped out a few members with some problems. You can even ask Archer Panda about it. It isn't always public. A lot of the times this stuff is done privately via PM or what have you. And yeah, most of the time you don't see that extreme stuff because it gets handled quickly. It happens a lot outside of VO, but that's not within our jurisdiction and that can't be held accountable. Sometimes they can't contain themselves though and it gets on the forums.

[Howard]

@ Bern..Ah...Didin't think about PM.
Honestly I am most likely going to side Bern in this.Even though I was going 'WTF?!' at first but now I am going to side him.
I feel bad for Luka.She got dragged into this without doing anything wrong :C

[Bernkastel]

Rooxi, on 08 March 2011 - 02:49 AM, said:

@ Bern..Ah...Didin't think about PM.
Honestly I am most likely going to side Bern in this.Even though I was going 'WTF?!' at first but now I am going to side him.
I feel bad for Luka.She got dragged into this without doing anything wrong :C

It's okay, we both understand that being a mod means you have to gain a lot of unsatisfied customers. We'll be called lots of things and people will hate us for whatever reason. That's how life is with anything, not just being a mod. It's nothing to lose any sleep over so don't worry about her too much.

[Thane]

*sighs* I signed in for this Bullshit, and I'm supposed to be on break...

Ok, first thing I see going wrong in this thread is a mod is replying.

Bern, If you wish to not get flamed and raged at. Don't reply. You replying and defending a point is exactly what you SHOULD NOT be doing. All comments and criticisms should be left unreplied to as stem any further arguments.

Or all comments should be replied to with a "I see, Thanks I'll keep that in mind!".

Take all criticism lightheartedly and with a smile, do NOT argue because then people just start throwing punches.

A Moderators job, In my eye should be to keep the forums clean, move and delete posts and threads and to make sure the users know where to post. Their job should be to, also, not put in their two-cents on a argument or topic that you all love to do oh-so much, but hop in and say, "Okay guys, that's enough." Which only happens when 3 more pages of thrown punches go by and the thread gets locked, when If a mod stopped it when It started the thread would still be open and receiving posts.

You guys must have an abundant supply of locks about. Just saying.

And lastly a moderators job is to be Neutral. No sticking up for the newbies or the older members, no sticking up for your friends. You need to literally not care about either side of a conflict and tell them both that they were out of line, unless clearly one was more so than the other. You need to not care if it was your friend who was breaking the rules and do something about it, something besides MSNing them and telling them. Yes, I am saying if your friend was doing something that was a bannable offense, you would ban them.

So, Look at your BEST friend on VO and tell me right now you could permanently ban them. If you, truthfully, cannot. You do not belong in the position you guys are in. You need to be a judge, Judges do not have a bias, but you people do.

[Absol Fimbulvetr]

Exactly what Thane says when we say you should stop being Luka's white knight.
And you are trying to compare VO to those not impartial site? What kind of lame mistake is this to not try to strife for the best?
And what's up with a big fuss when it's concerning Luka? Do we have to know that you have just defend your friend?
Or are you making those "severe cases which aren't publicized" as a devil's proof because we can't prove that?
You are contradicting yourself when you say you're "trying to be impartial" and that "i'm humans, it can't be helped".
If nothing is wrong, you won't get those usually-calm users complaining at you. Paprika, DrExplosion, and Beatlemania. What little common sense is required to see it, anyway?
Mod work for EVERY users, not PARTICULAR user. And we fail to see such thing in you.
But nevermind. It's as expected from someone who can't read properly (mistaken "closing VO as temporary measure" to "closing VO permanently, bye bye, newfags") and making a remark on it.
Stop with those insulting "suggestion" or i'll mow you with my banhammer![/sarcasm]
@rooxi: have you seen the bigger picture? As in, this whole thread from page 1?

[Thane]

"Mods work for EVERY user, not PARTICULAR users."

Quote of the Decade, with spell and grammar check mind you....

[Howard]

Lord Absolute, on 08 March 2011 - 11:44 AM, said:

Exactly what Thane says when we say you should stop being Luka's white knight.
And you are trying to compare VO to those not impartial site? What kind of lame mistake is this to not try to strife for the best?
And what's up with a big fuss when it's concerning Luka? Do we have to know that you have just defend your friend?
Or are you making those "severe cases which aren't publicized" as a devil's proof because we can't prove that?
You are contradicting yourself when you say you're "trying to be impartial" and that "i'm humans, it can't be helped".
If nothing is wrong, you won't get those usually-calm users complaining at you. Paprika, DrExplosion, and Beatlemania. What little common sense is required to see it, anyway?
Mod work for EVERY users, not PARTICULAR user. And we fail to see such thing in you.
But nevermind. It's as expected from someone who can't read properly (mistaken "closing VO as temporary measure" to "closing VO permanently, bye bye, newfags") and making a remark on it.
Stop with those insulting "suggestion" or i'll mow you with my banhammer![/sarcasm]
@rooxi: have you seen the bigger picture? As in, this whole thread from page 1?

Ofcourse I have -.-.I am siding him because I havent seen him protect Luka.

[Bernkastel]

Thane, on 08 March 2011 - 03:15 AM, said:

Bern, If you wish to not get flamed and raged at. Don't reply. You replying and defending a point is exactly what you SHOULD NOT be doing. All comments and criticisms should be left unreplied to as stem any further arguments.

Or all comments should be replied to with a "I see, Thanks I'll keep that in mind!".

Take all criticism lightheartedly and with a smile, do NOT argue because then people just start throwing punches.

You and I both know that wouldn't work. Even if it's to appease people who are unhappy, it wouldn't do much good because they'd want solid answers, not answers that some customer service machine would tell them. Leaving people to wonder what happened about certain issues will do more harm than any good. I mean, if we're not going to say anything and it's just a complaint thread, why even have it in the first place? You can complain about that stuff on MSN or whatever since it'd be just as good.

And you can bet I'm not taking anything personally in this thread. I would have stopped a long time ago if I did.

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A Moderators job, In my eye should be to keep the forums clean, move and delete posts and threads and to make sure the users know where to post. Their job should be to, also, not put in their two-cents on a argument or topic that you all love to do oh-so much, but hop in and say, "Okay guys, that's enough." Which only happens when 3 more pages of thrown punches go by and the thread gets locked, when If a mod stopped it when It started the thread would still be open and receiving posts.

You guys must have an abundant supply of locks about. Just saying.

Soo... you want threads locked when they're necessary, but don't want threads locked because it happens a lot? And we're not always here 24/7, sometimes we're slow to pick up on the shit storms.

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And lastly a moderators job is to be Neutral. No sticking up for the newbies or the older members, no sticking up for your friends. You need to literally not care about either side of a conflict and tell them both that they were out of line, unless clearly one was more so than the other. You need to not care if it was your friend who was breaking the rules and do something about it, something besides MSNing them and telling them. Yes, I am saying if your friend was doing something that was a bannable offense, you would ban them.

First bolded half is contradictory. You want neutrality and telling both sides they're at fault, but it's okay to pick sides when one is obviously at fault for harassing the other? That's kind of what we already do isn't it? I've had to tell or do something about several people I like before that they were not doing something good, including you. Sure, it's hard, but I have to do it right?

@Absol: I don't think you have your own firm stance on what you're trying to say. I think you're just agreeing with anyone that disagrees with me at this point for the sake of disagreement. You swear like I don't stand up for anyone. Yes, including you. :/

@Rooxi: Nah, I totally have. A good while back.

[Thane]

Good man :3

Respect +100

LEVEL UP!

[Absol Fimbulvetr]

Hey bern, you failed to remember that i started this thread:
http://vocaloidotaku...eed-vovolution/
Then after serious discussion with Paprika and A over MSN, Pap replied to this thread.
Turns out that the problem is totally different.
And there comes DrExplosion and Beatlemania.
Basically, i started this revolution. I'm the core.
And yet you say i'm going with the flow.
I AM THE FLOW RIGHT NOW, DUDE. I have every right to agree for something that supports my first initiative.
And i did elaborate. Not as many as them, yes, because i have trouble typing too much, but that's different story.
@thane: i fail grammar. Sorry.
@rooxi: didn't see doesn't mean didn't exist or didn't happen. And is not a strong reason to stick up with any side (in short, you should stay away from this. You could've caught in a distressing moment.)

[Howard]

Lord Absolute, on 08 March 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

Hey bern, you failed to remember that i started this thread:
http://vocaloidotaku...eed-vovolution/
Then after serious discussion with Paprika and A over MSN, Pap replied to this thread.
Turns out that the problem is totally different.
And there comes DrExplosion and Beatlemania.
Basically, i started this revolution. I'm the core.
And yet you say i'm going with the flow.
I AM THE FLOW RIGHT NOW, DUDE. I have every right to agree for something that supports my first initiative.
And i did elaborate. Not as many as them, yes, because i have trouble typing too much, but that's different story.
@thane: i fail grammar. Sorry.
@rooxi: didn't see doesn't mean didn't exist or didn't happen. And is not a strong reason to stick up with any side (in short, you should stay away from this. You could've caught in a distressing moment.)

I have the right to choose a side.It's not your buisness.I am not afraid to get into a thread when it's a serious fight time.Never did and never will.Honestly saying that you are the core is honestly making me think that you are an egoist who thinks that he is the core of the earth.It honestly does.When I think core,I think earth insides.That soo called 'revolution' never started.VO revolution is a
bad idea honestly.

[Disco Aies]

Rooxi, on 08 March 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:

I have the right to choose a side.It's not your buisness.I am not afraid to get into a thread when it's a serious fight time.Never did and never will.Honestly saying that you are the core is honestly making me think that you are an egoist who thinks that he is the core of the earth.It honestly does.When I think core,I think earth insides.That soo called 'revolution' never started.VO revolution is a
bad idea honestly.

@Rooxi: Usually, when you leave in order to only lurk, you don't post. :V


@Thread: I don't have nothing to say on the matter that much. I'm not that fond of Forum-Drama.

[Clove]

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Why would people who have no interest in Vocaloid or Japan or whatever there is on this forum even be here in the first place?

:'D

Sorry Bern, this little line had me laughing so hard!

(And stop dragging me back into this shit with your silliness!)