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Most Pretentious Vocaloid Song What is the most pretentious song for you?

#1 User is offline   JOSUÀ M4N6À Icon

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 02:13 PM

(Please move if in the wrong category, I am uncertain if this is the right category)

I am not sure if this had been disccused before but I will try to bring up this topic and it's been in my head for quite a while now,
I remember when I was first introduced to Vocaloid, I was introduced different music from the cheery and up beat and silly to
the dark and disturbing and I had no complaints.

Now that I am older, I am starting to see that the dark stuff
that I liked before stopped being enjoyable because of it's edginess and pretentiousness.
I couldn't take something like this as seriously anymore, sorry if people like this particular song
but I thought this was so dark and disturbing that it actually becomes annoying to look at and listen to
the music, the lyrics, the imagery is just something I think is (sorry for using this word) cringy and not in a good way
I can now only take seriously a few songs that resemble this type of songs but that's like one in a hundred


(couldn't find the original Vocaloid version)

Right now, it seems to me that the pretentiousness has toned
down nowadays ( I hope) but still I continue to encounter something needlessly
pretentious and edgy song from an amatuer or a "professional" every now and then so I like to ask
what is the most pretentious Vocaloid song you ever heard and why?
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#2 User is offline   Mantis128 Icon

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 03:11 PM

How does something having a dark tone tone to it make it pretentious?

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 04:39 PM

How old are you?
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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:52 PM

pretentious

prɪˈtɛnʃəs

adjective


attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed.
Youtube poster 1; what does the [/] do?

Youtube poster 2; I'm guessing that it breaks the word in half.

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 12:37 AM

I think the word you're looking for is "edgy", not "pretentious".

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#6 User is offline   JOSUÀ M4N6À Icon

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 09:18 AM

Okay, just came back and after a long time, I finally see people talking, so let me clarify

First of all to @florawolf I learned about Vocaloid when i was I think thirteen and now I am nineteen turning twenty three months later. I may have used a dark song as an example of pretension but that does not necessarily mean that just because it's dark or edgy, it's automatically pretentious
I have encountered some dark and edgy works but I don't find them that pretentious like the infamous "Bring Me To Life", even though I make fun of that song for it's edginess
I don't find it pretentious.

So what do I mean by pretentious? well what this guy said.

View PostSomebodyrandom, on 11 January 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

pretentious

prɪˈtɛnʃəs

adjective


attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed.


That means a work does not have to be necessarily dark or edgy, even the ones that attempt to look very artsy and deep. My problem with these works and what makes them pretentious is that when a work
presents itself as dark or deep but otherwise are just there to either scare you or to impress you and sometimes with familiar/trivial references that is said to be associeted with smart people, it encourages this kind of logic that if you simply know or reference Plato's "allegory of the cave" , you are a genius despite not understanding what it actually means. I cited Alice of human sacrifice as an example because of trying to tie in Alice in wonderland, an otherwise innocent ( sort of...with all this existential undertones) strange story with dissonant instrumentals and morbid lyrics and what is the point in the end? nothing...it's just meant to scare people therefore pretentious, this is how I just currently view the specific song, maybe I am missing something but that's usually my stance when it comes to pretentious works that try to look smart or edgy. I have more respect for this guy



This work is also dark, dissonant, morbid, surreal, etc yet compared to other dark vocaloid works, I see a pattern, the dissonance has a purpose to it and so with the lyrics and combine that with the imagery, it actually clear if you paid attention to it and the same goes for his other works so it does not come out as pretentious for me. I like that this guy isn't trying to impress anyone. This is the kind of work that separates the edgy pretentious song to really thought provoking music. It really gets into my nerves when you are done listening to a song, re-analyze the whole thing only to find that, most of the elements used in the song lead nowhere and is only there to impress, in other words, your time was wasted. So I like to ask again and it doesn't have to be edgy, what is the most pretentious vocaloid song you ever heard?
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#7 User is offline   Somebodyrandom Icon

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 09:58 AM

I don't think you understood why I added that... Your basically misusing a word like how people misuse "irony", when its correct use basically means a action that results in the opposite outcome to to the ended result. Off the top of my head, those people who wanted to support Ruby by Pocaloid'ing her to "hurt" PowerFX would only hurt Syo, as he got a bonus based on how well she sold, plus more vocals if she did well. Therefore the irony was their method of support Syo, wouldn't.

I'll give an example of "pretentious"; a kid makes himself out to be some big deal because his father was in a movie that was really successful... But it turns out the role was something like a extra or the movie was a B-rated movie in reality. But he has put out his old man to be a big deal or star on par with the likes of Brad Pitt.

To say a "Pretentious" song would basically mean that its put off as better then it is, but in reality is obscure or just of low importance. It wouldn't JUST apply to edgy songs, it would apply to any song. It would say that it won some contest, or something, for example, when the contest wasn't that big of a deal. Or would say how it was on a certain album, but that album isn't that well known. Or in a app game, when that app game is one nobody has heard of or hardly played.

Basically, it would be a case of the producer portraying a song to be of a status that it doesn't deserve, making it out to be iconic or notable when the song flashes by without hardly anyone knowing about it. The song itself can't be pretentious itself because unless the lyrics say "I am a amazing song" flat out, it can't make itself out to be better then it is... A song pretending to be edgier then it is, is that... "Pretending". Its not, however, "Pretentious" no matter what.

Off the top of my head, the song "Tribute" by Tenacious D alludes to a song that is "the best song in the world" but since we can't hear it. The song "tribute" is talking about how great this unheard song was and its a shame we couldn't hear it because it was "the best song in the world". But this is done for comedy reasons, but "the best song in the world" is a pretty big claim to make as it dismisses all other songs ever made and will be made as less then it, making the "best song in the world" a pretentious statement to make without being able to prove or show how great it was. But this is I guess half the comedy behind the song. :-/

What you really wanted is the word "Misleding" or a variant of that word.
Youtube poster 1; what does the [/] do?

Youtube poster 2; I'm guessing that it breaks the word in half.

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:37 AM

I have to agree with you on some points here. I have to admit that while I had a similar definition, I think differently of that definition.
Your definitions and examples of "pretentious" given here are logical.

View PostSomebodyrandom, on 18 January 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

What you really wanted is the word "Misleding" or a variant of that word.


I can see what you are saying here but I can't help but I to call a song "misleading" doesn't feel right especially if some songs established itself in the beginning to have a
a kind of mood to it like once again with Alice of human sacrifice, it presented itself as dark. I thought misleading would be more like you are expecting to hear a dance song only to find that it's a depressing song (even those can be done poorly). I thought the word "Pretentious" is a specific kind of pretending or misleading that tries to make itself look important in a way by presenting itself deeper than what it actually is or look dark to seem mature. Not a song example but I recalled that a lot of people called The Matrix films pretentious and I can see why ( but maybe how I see it is different, I could be wrong)

I don't know if I should replace the word pretentious for a different one but either way , My problem is that there are these works that try to feel dark or deep with a chance of people thinking it's smart but when I encounter them and analyze them closely, I find that most of the elements they use either contribute to nothing or these elements are just there to pander. I am wondering someone also ever had this feeling before also when they encounter a vocaloid song that does said things and feel annoyed
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Posted 19 January 2017 - 08:28 AM

"Pretentious" and "pretending" are closely related words. Josua's use of "pretentious" is closer to my understanding of the word. Pretentiousness is "putting on airs", which is acting in such a way as to try to convince others that you were something more (or better) than what you really are. It is a conscious act done to create a certain impression. It's "pretending" but with a particular intent.
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Posted 21 January 2017 - 12:24 PM

View Postbioloid, on 19 January 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

"Pretentious" and "pretending" are closely related words. Josua's use of "pretentious" is closer to my understanding of the word. Pretentiousness is "putting on airs", which is acting in such a way as to try to convince others that you were something more (or better) than what you really are. It is a conscious act done to create a certain impression. It's "pretending" but with a particular intent.


This was pretty much my understanding of it too. In the case of an edgy song being pretentious, it would be like the song is saying "I am such a Deep and Meaningful and Real song", when in reality, they just threw grimdark stuff at it to see what would stick. It isn't necessarily the composer coming out and saying that their song is meaningful, it's more like an impression you get from the song. Like it's trying too hard to be edgy because all the cool songs are edgy. But of course, since it's just an impression that an individual gets from it, it is incredibly subjective, and what would be cringe-worthy to one person is actually meaningful to another. It's all down your own interpretation of a song.

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 03:41 AM

View PostCyana, on 21 January 2017 - 04:24 AM, said:

This was pretty much my understanding of it too. In the case of an edgy song being pretentious, it would be like the song is saying "I am such a Deep and Meaningful and Real song", when in reality, they just threw grimdark stuff at it to see what would stick. It isn't necessarily the composer coming out and saying that their song is meaningful, it's more like an impression you get from the song. Like it's trying too hard to be edgy because all the cool songs are edgy. But of course, since it's just an impression that an individual gets from it, it is incredibly subjective, and what would be cringe-worthy to one person is actually meaningful to another. It's all down your own interpretation of a song.


It's of course, why I am asking the question

"What is the most pretentious Vocaloid song you have ever heard"

Since I know something like impressions is subjective, I am really quite curious
But I guess a discussion about the meaning of "Pretentious" also works
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Posted 22 January 2017 - 06:13 AM

View PostCyana, on 21 January 2017 - 10:24 PM, said:

But of course, since it's just an impression that an individual gets from it, it is incredibly subjective, and what would be cringe-worthy to one person is actually meaningful to another. It's all down your own interpretation of a song.

This is why I'm not convinced about this whole thread tbh. A song can't be considered truly pretentious unless it is known that the creator has made it with the intent to promote it as something better than it is. Alice of Human Sacrifice is certainly edgy and dark, but I don't believe the creator set out to be "woah omg look at my deep and meaningful song gaiz!", it was just another addition to the trend at the time of producers realising they could be quite different/creative/dark with vocaloid compared to human singers. That kind of context is also important to understanding why was made.

If it had been released today, then maybe it could be considered pretentious because that fad has kind of died out in vocaloid. But finding something cringy and bad later on is just your changing tastes and evolving trends, not a sign that it was trying too hard.

If I had to say something was pretentious, I'd probably say numerous works by certain western producers, who go for edgy like it's still cool, without giving any personal emotion/attachment to their songs. ECHO, while dark, showed us a very raw image of Crusher-P and many related to the lyrics. The song managed to perfectly capture the feelings conveyed by the lyrics. But there's other producers who go a mile further with the sound and lyrics that have no emotion in it, so it just becomes edgelord fodder. And edgy is no longer cool, it's been ridiculed for years.
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