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What do Western fans want to listen to? We want more genres, but what genres do we want?

#1 User is offline   starrie Icon

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:39 AM

(Feel free to move this topic to a proper location, I was searching around where I thought it should go and sense I'm technically still learning I thought asking on the campus would be most fitting- so sorry ;;)

I'd like to start making music; I've already finished my first song, but it fits into I guess the EDM, electro kind of genre that Circus writes. I thought it'd be the best route to go to start off, but I can't help hesitating. You see frequently people complaining about how all Western music sounds the same. Basically, we've got three genres, as perpetuated by the most well-known producers (and everyone else kind of just follows).

- Dark and/or depressing themes (Circus, Crusher, GHOST, EmpathP -since most songs are about heartbreak or losing someone I mean come on-)

- EDM/pop sound to it (heartbreaker, Circus, Crusher, YusukeKira)

- Eerie (GHOST, Creep)

And it's a pattern you see with other producers, too. But I can't help but wonder if we should consider branching out and doing more. I guess my question is, what is it the fans want to hear, besides all that music? Yes, they're the most popular and are the genres focused on because they're guaranteed to get the most views, clearly, but at the same time, what do people want to hear that are tired of all the same things?

What changes?

More story-based songs, like Sun Quan the Emperor, or the Synchronicity or Daughter of Evil series? Things that have adventure and meaning? Things that have more of a rock sound, like Mizuiro Guitar Rocket? What kind of stuff are we looking for?
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#2 User is offline   GreenFantasy64 Icon

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:02 AM

Okay so this is interesting that I'm going to be watching this topic for a while, Starrie. : P

:kaitov3:


Curious on this, sorry, is your first song creepy and dark? Or the opposite? : 0


:kaitov3:


Until next time...
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#3 User is offline   starrie Icon

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:11 AM

View PostGreenFantasy64, on 12 August 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

Okay so this is interesting that I'm going to be watching this topic for a while, Starrie. : P

:kaitov3:


Curious on this, sorry, is your first song creepy and dark? Or the opposite? : 0


:kaitov3:


Until next time...

I'm glad you find it interesting, haha!

As for the song, it's more...I think it's more dark than anything, but it's not inherently creepy or violent or anything. I think a "The Living Tombstone" vibe would be an accurate description, since he inspires a lot of my sound lol. The song is more of a social commentary, since there are so many Japanese songs that have political or opinion-based themes that are deep and interesting, so I wanted to try my hand at it. It just falls into that "generic circus-p" sort of sound too, imo, which is something I'm worried about.

Does that make sense or am I just ranbling lol ;;;
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#4 User is offline   Hatsune-hakase Icon

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:37 AM

View Poststarrie, on 11 August 2017 - 11:39 PM, said:

they're the most popular and are the genres focused on because they're guaranteed to get the most views, clearly


I don't think it's necessarily the case that producers write music in those genres because they're "guaranteed to get the most views." I think the most well-known Western producers write in those genres because, well, they like those genres, and like to write that kind of music. This isn't to say that producers don't also try to write music that they think other people will like too, but I highly doubt these choices are made so cynically.

Anyway, I also wonder if we have a complete picture of the genres encompassed by vocaloid music, even just Western vocaloid music. This is something I often wonder about, actually. But it's very hard to get a complete picture, because there's a lot of data to keep track of, and, most importantly, I know of no reliable way to track all the genres that are represented in vocaloid music. The closest thing I can think of is VocaDB, which includes genre tags for songs and artists. Here's their tag list, in which the more frequently tagged genres are in a larger font size (or so I assume). But I'm not sure how representative this list is. Many songs may not be tagged at all, or mis-tagged, or even completely absent from the database. (It also completely omits covers of songs that aren't originally vocaloid, which makes sense to do, but I would probably still want that music--and its genres--included.) I will admit that a glance at that list does somewhat corroborate your intuition that a lot of vocaloid music falls into various "electronic" genres. And this makes a lot of intuitive sense, given that we're talking about music featuring electronic singers. But I see a lot of other genres represented, so vocaloid music may be more diverse than it sometimes seems.

But at the end of the day, when it comes to what music you want to write, I think you should just write whatever it is you want to write, and not worry too much about whether it does or does not align with what other people are doing. I think it's possible to write vocaloid music in a "mainstream" genre (whatever that means, exactly) and still have it be distinctive (for example, all those producers you listed may write in similar genres, but I think they're all very distinct from one another, they all have their own "voices"); I also think you can write something that's really out in left field and still become well known and well regarded (one example that comes to mind is UtsuP's music).
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#5 User is offline   D!zzy Icon

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:40 AM

I think for bedroom producers, EDM and electronic genres are the easiest to get into. Other genres require more traditional instrumentation, which may be hard for most beginners to get their hands on.
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#6 User is offline   sleepysheep7 Icon

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:46 AM

....to be honest, I just want some more happy lighthearted songs even if they are pop/edm style. (I would actually prefer that format since I listen to vocaloid when I run) Happy Synthesizer, Drop Pop Candy, Magical Night, Cocorovoice, Liking Disliking, Twinkle x Twinkle, and Past Past Past Life have lately been what I keep going back to since they make me feel good and just have nice simple happy lyrics. But I believe I would be in the minority here since dark, edgy, and deep seem to be the most popular on the western side.
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#7 User is offline   Heruru Meruru Icon

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 06:55 AM

I love Steampianist and Momocashew from doing things other than just EDM, wish other western producers would try different genres.
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#8 User is offline   BenHo Icon

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 12:58 PM

Speaking from my personal experience (as a person who never uploads anything he makes BUT WHATEVER), the biggest hurdle I have struggled to overcome is the issue of learning HOW to create music in genres outside EDM. I (and I'm assuming most people who want to make music using Vocaloid) jumped straight into learning how to make music in a DAW via sequencing, which lends itself more toward electronic sounding genres. But I wanted to learn how to make something in the rock/metal area, which poses a number of issues. Instead of learning how to make that style of music directly in a sequencer, I instead had to start learning how that music is traditionally made and then learn how to emulate those sounds in a sequencer/DAW, which is pretty hard when most of these more "traditional" genres tend to come with a lot of anti-digital elitism. It also didn't help that only recently have we started getting decent sample-based electric guitar libraries that are actually affordable and high quality (thank you Impact Soundworks).

What I'm trying to say is I think people would venture into more genres if it wasn't as much of a hassle. Electronic music and it's many subgenres are much easier to learn thanks to an abundance of tutorials and the simple fact that those genres were built from the ground up FOR digital production techniques. Genres outside that bubble require you to learn to play instruments (which you may not be able to afford the money/time to do) or find some way to imitate the instruments, and there aren't nearly as many tutorials to help with that.
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#9 User is offline   starrie Icon

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 09:57 PM

Thanks everybody for your words, I really appreciate it- you were all really helpful!
I hope to write more music aside from the song I uploaded already. I'd love to branch out and write other things.
I agree, Steampianist and momocashew are two of my favorites as well. Corasundae too...I wish they'd write more often lol
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#10 User is offline   Distortion Icon

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 12:12 AM

I don't really mind whether lyrics are dark or happy, I just wish I'd see more flow in lyrics in the western side. A lot of western producers I've listened to seem to write lyrics that just sound like they're made for a completely different instrumental...
I think if you're trying to bring new things to the western community, happy lyrics are definitely something it's lacking.
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#11 User is offline   Heruru Meruru Icon

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:24 AM

I don't even see much chiptunes on the western side, which is weird since you'd think they would be easy enough to make.
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#12 User is offline   ZAR-PARTY Icon

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 06:14 PM

Now that this is mentioned, I noticed that I don't have any western producers as my favorites. Of course, there are English songs by western producers that I like but it's not that much that I'd describe myself as the producer's fan.

I'm a beginning Vocaloid producer too and, unfortunately, I'm just a noob who learns by experimenting with the DAW and Vocaloid's. I recently started to play piano and Spanish guitar but it will take a lot of time to become good at it, and even if I become good at it, I still don't have the environment for good audio recording nor do I have the money for it.
In my current situation, I can only compose electronic music and slow ballads by using instrument libraries and samples.

I want to compose music of various genres like rock, metal, pop and even classical - since I don't want to specify on one genre because I like all of them - in future, once I get the required things.

It's sad that there is nobody like a "LamazeP of the West" because good songs like his are missing in the Western scene. All of my favorite English songs seem to be about heartbreak.
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#13 User is offline   NoirSuede Icon

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 03:48 AM

Where is the song
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#14 User is offline   Owlscillate Icon

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:26 AM

Honestly, just make what you want to make. IMO if you let your audience decide what they want to hear from you, it's not true art.
Also, if you think three genres is what the western fandom is all there is to it, check out 10th Wave. It's in the top banner, and a free album.
(Shameless plug, I'm on it)
But, that basically sums up what we have to offer. We have synthpop, alt rock, metal, pop-rock, future bass, drum n bass, pop.. all the stuff..


Try not to let your audience define who you are. Let your songs speak for themselves.
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#15 User is offline   xtraspicy Icon

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:07 AM

people want to hear good music
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